Why I Walked Out on Tony Robbins

Like the author of this page, this is simply my opinion. I believe we all get something out of any event in life. Tony is a motivational speaker; motivation is never a solution. It's a temporary result that does not last unless it's connected to your true highest value (chief aim).

If you want lasting results, try John Demartini. He will show you how to empower yourself without the cheerleading aspect. A man who has developed a Method, that is scientifically reproducible. A man who walks his talks and has transformed literally thousands of lives over rate last 30 years.

When you go to see Tony this is actually the guy you want to see. It's called the Breakthrough experience.

Thank you!

Fill yer boots top man. I learned more reading your synopsis than spending 3 days getting yelled at. I cannot stand being asked 3 times at increasingly louder volume if I'm "In the Room". Of course I'm in the fucking room you twat, otherwise I couldn't hear you being a full-size pillock! I have lots of questions, because I'm a 64 year old dinosaur on my last big gig. OK, it's world domination of the small business space so it may take a little time. But I'd like to join whatever you have going because I like your style.

i attended a one day seminar in Ottawa and while I was originally told there would be no sales gimicks, I found that the other speakers were flogging their books on personal development and courses on investment. I am an 83 yr old retired lawyer and not easily influences but I was swept up in the tide and purchased a course with Phil Town. It was initially valued at nearly $10,000. and was offered for $475 for one person and a guest. The attendees ran like lemmings to take advantage of the offer. I went out for a coffee and was swept up in the frenzy and signed up for the course. Two days later I found $667. has been deducted from my credit card. Apparently the cost of the course was in US dollars. the course had been billed as completely refunded if you were not completely satisfied. I felt I had been duped and taken advantage of. I requested a refund, was told to Contact "Power of Success", which I did but have not heard from them. Aside from my allegation of fraud, I am dismayed that Tony Robbins would permit such crass marketing to be done on a very vulnerable and captive audience. He is allowing himself to be used as a marketing tool for others who obviously do not espouse the values he professes.

Buy his book Awaken The Giant Within. It's a classic, a seriously great book and Tony's pièce de résistance. It'll cost you $20 or less and if everything you need is there. Take what you need and leave the rest, read other books and do the same. Do the work. You don't need a 4 day gazillion dollar seminar to make a change and expecting that is chasing the magic pill...I want it fast approach.

I've considered going to his seminar but the cost and circus atmosphere were always deterrents. I like TR and have had great success using his tools but it was from ME focusing on improving and doing the work. But, if that is what helps a person and they get value from it then it's a different approach than mine and good on them.

For those who think you're nuts for walking out....well, this was YOUR journey and you walked away with valuable insights and learning's. Good for you for recognizing that.

I remember buying a course of his year's ago....and felt like I got ripped off.Tony made his money by telling people how to make money....same tactics name dropping and whatever....he gives bits and pieces from other self help books lol....what really turned me off is when he got to the point of using fluent profanity....I felt disrespected ....it just does not reflect on the model of a real successful person.i feel he did read all those self help books....and combined them into a new format with different wording.i realised...he's like a guy who encouraged us to go find gold in them hills ....but meanwhile instead of mining himself..... he's selling us the shovels and supplies to mine.....I cringe when I think about the money I spent on him.....wise choice....I made it years ago however I'm on to his game and he won't get my cash again !!!

just go to church and it's free lol

Good for you. People that think they can sum up someone else’s relationship or life history in minutes are being insensitive, insincere and cruel. No one is able to know this person’s heart or pain except God, and Tony is not God. In fact, from what I’m reading, his insensitive, sarcastic and humiliating behavior with people isn’t God-like at all. My personal feeling is that he would test pretty high on the narcissist scale, and in some cases, his approach may do more harm than good.

Just watched a film featuring T. Robbins and C. Madanes as the narrator. It was filming Tony at one of his events on 9/11/2001 in HA. It was both fascinating and disturbing all at the same time. I felt like I had seen some sort of cultist event and/or leader. I've never read on of Tony R's books. My brother gave me a tape years ago of the "Giant Within". I listened to it and found it wasn't that interesting or helpful to me. I was curious about him so looked him up online to see what people were saying about him.

I really appreciate your honesty. I'm at an UPW event in London, and I'm ready to walk out as well on day three. I think everything could have been compressed I to 2 days and 16 hours max. The firewall was fun, even though I did get burned, but I'm not the type of person who is ready to share his *true* deepest fears shortcomings and failures with random people around me, even if they are all wonderful. There is WAY too much selling during the seminars. WTF do you mean that "the next step" is for me to attend business mastery?? Shouldn't my next step be to employ what i just learned here and change my life forever??? I

You don’t get to stay for part of a day and comment on the whole thing needing to be shorter and needing more focus. You speak from ignorance.

I'm an Aussie, so the 'ra ra' factor is difficult for me to swallow x 10,000 to what someone from Tony's part of the world may even struggle with. I haven't actually been to one his events for many years, but assuming they're still the same, I might make the following observations. Firstly, I'm always uncomfortable at the start and feel like walking out. Dealing with that discomfort rather than walking out and feeling empowered, is part of my process. It's how I learned stuff I wouldn't have otherwise. Some of which was valuable, some less so. I guess you'll never know what you missed out. I hope it was a really good coffee and healthy lunch you had instead.

Giving a summary on what people may or may not lie about the seminar you didn't actually stay at is probably quite a big call, on't you think? I could probably review the last Foo Fighters concert I didn't go to, but that wouldn't make much sense because, ah, I wasn't there. So by all means explain why you left, and what you thought of it BEFORE you left, you know, while you were actually still there, but quite how you get to say what Tony's seminars might do for people and what they should do differently based on the bit of one you saw just seems illogical to me. I really don't understand it all. And no, i'm not someone who puts him on a pedestal - i don't love everything he does, especially all that bloody hugging and singing and dancing. But at least I stayed til the end. Several times. So I can probably comment more accurately than someone who didn't. Anyway... just sharing my thought. Shall we hug now? 😉

Wow. This is amazing. Honest and balanced. I'm not a big fan of Robbins, although I have huge respect for his work and the sheer volume of people he has helped. I've had people urge me to go and for me, his methods just don't resonate. Thank you for saving me from wasting the money and more importantly, time I couldn't get back if I went. I still read his work and watch his videos. That's enough for me. There are other practitioners who I get more from that I will work with... but more than anything, I'm deciding I'm not broken, I'm OK and I just need to realize that rather than taking another self help seminar or buying another book.

Great article. I was curious how much it cost for Tony to speak at an vent and found your article. I am a proud summoling. I had never heard any of your back story. Your are inspiring in that you like to challenge yourself. I’ve learned few new things about a company I support and visit about four times a week. Great engaging writing too. On TR I subscribed to his podcast with disappointment. It’s a lady often interviewing people. Not what I expected from a TR podcast. TR has helped many people, I am a roundabout fan. I’ve only seen him in movies and listened to one side of a cassette tape, but had friends that did listen to him support me through tough times. I am thankful he labels himself a motivational speaker though and not a pastor.

I am a PhD in Psychology with over 35 years experience and a tenured full professor in Psychology. Everything that Tony Robbins does is based on good psychological theory...even the celebration and upbeat chanting. If someone does not like that, then they should not attend his seminar. I just did my first one this past weekend in San Jose and came away more convinced than ever that his approach is brilliant.

I have not been to a seminar in the past 20 years where other seminars or products weren't promoted, even the so-called non-profit professional organizations. Yes, there is marketing done at the seminar, but the amount he does is small compared to any other I have attended.

Sorry people are so skeptical. I found the weekend amazing and walked away with tons of skills that I can use with my clients.

Hi there, I totally agree - there seems to be a lot of fluff, hoopla and dancing. No I've never been but I was thinking of going to Aust. NOT anymore. Cos all his videos I've watched - a whole lot of the fluff and 10,000 people?! It's too vague - his messaging. No, I'll save my money and work on my personal development on my own

I felt the exact same way!! I just walked out of the session in Singapore!!

Tony uses Neuro Linguistic Programming NLP to market his seminars, in his language when presenting on stage, and when he does 'change work' with attendees. The problem is that he does not divulge this to his followers (He's started to, however for decades he didn't acknowledge the field of NLP which IMO is disrespectful to the co-creators John Grinder & Richard Bandler), nor does he teach the audience members the patterns, (step by step) of HOW they can repeat the patterns themselves.

Hence, while attendees get 'unleashed' verbally, and witness powerful changes of a hand full of audience members that Tony works with directly, they quickly fall back into their old patterns soon as they return home. Reason is that external triggers, lifestyle, influences are generally inflexible and in order for change to happen on a deeper (neurological) level it needs to be embodied and anchored. (I guess this is what he's attempting to do with the dancing and clapping and hugging - which works in the moment however this is a highly inappropriate method of anchoring a high intensity state as it cannot be easily replicated in 'real life' back in the home. )

What this all means is that people quickly fall back into their old patterns and unresourceful states upon re-entering their lives and jobs back home and quickly need another 'fix. As an attendee they now have a 'community' they feel connected to so they sign up for the next event, and keep coming back for more, and more and more!

Tony is a model of excellence in the genre of marketing his events and selling from the stage. Many people model his model and it works. Unfortunately, he is also robbing people of the opportunity to make the changes in their lives they want as they don't have all the tools they need...specifically, the NLP patterns, processes, strategies and language patterns that he is using!

So if a person has $2K-$5K to invest in themselves so they can transform their lives great!
They might get better results seeking a reputable and *Certified* NLP Trainer who offers Certification courses in NLP (examples - Classic Code NLP, New Code NLP, Masters, Coaching and many more certifications are available - worldwide by many excellent trainers) .

Investing in learning NLP skills in a LIVE experiential training environment where you can actually use the patterns with a partner will provide you with the patterns Tony uses (and many other transformational trainers/speakers for that matter)- plus you will get the shifts in belief, state, habits and behaviours that you are seeking - and you can replicate the experience when you get back to home. And if you keep practicing you can even begin coaching others!

Try eckart tolle... U will like his talks more..

I listed to Tony Robbins' 30 day tape program when I was 16 years old, and it changed my life. I started down a path of self reliance and control. And just like everyone else who gains control over their life, they start seeing things differently. I wouldn't recommend him to anyone else, even though absolutely helped me.

Why? Because when you find the solutions he provides to be temporary and specific, they no longer change you. I had to face myself, my sins, and I found God. And when God says fear him more than men, and take this seriously (commit) then you start to stop being afraid in life, just like how Tony Robbins taught me. But for a permanent reason, not a selfish and temporary one.

When you dedicate your life to helping others, you don't need tricks and gimmics. When you worry about other peoples problems more than your own (truly) you cannot be depressed. If you are still depressed, then go back to worrying about other people until you aren't any more. If you are still depressed, then you are lying to yourself about what you are worrying about.

In Proverbs it says worldy saddness leads to death, is this not depression leading to suicide written thousands of years ago? There is nothing new under the sun. Help someone else, you will find love very quickly. Do something real, stop lying to yourself, and if you are afraid, admit it to yourself. If you cower in your own fears, you are a coward. If you justify your fears, you are a liar to yourself.

It's all rather simple. Love others, and you will have love. You don't need thousands of dollars. Just humility, peace and personal sacrifice for the sake of others.

Peace to you

Love it! I think TR is a real con artist egomaniac. Sociopathic? Greedy?
Good for you that you walked out! He is a sham and caters to people’s insecurities and fears. I wouldn’t waste a cent on that charlatan.

Hey Noah! Interesting read and you're obviously huge successful and intelligent but I hope you don't mind if I (politely) challenge you a little... Before you read this I just wanted to clarify that I am in no way affiliated to Tony Robbins or any company related to him. I also completely agree with your comments around "cheese" and thinking that you wouldn't get much out of the UPW experience. I remember sitting there the first day and thinking the exact same thing. But boy was I wrong... It saddens me you let your subconscious pre-judgements influence you enough to walk out.

In any experience you have the choice to take from it as much, or as little as you decide. It's actually one of the core learnings of UPW. If you decide that you're not going to get much out of the experience, then that's exactly what will happen - especially if you actually forego the experience entirely ;-).

So unfortunately your pre-judgements and the fact you walked out mean you can't possibly give UPW/Tony/Or the results you can get - a fair assessment. You can't half ass 20% of a workout plan and then give a public review about the plan that influences other people?

Had you stayed past the first day and pushed through your limiting beliefs (that you were obviously experiencing - even though you say you weren't, I can see them written in your words), and committed your heart and mind to the experience then I have no doubt it would've had an immensely positive impact on your life... AS LONG as you committed to the on-going work that's required to maintain it. It's not a 3-4 day seminar, it's an immersive experience that's designed to give you a breakthrough moment, combined with the necessary framework and exercises to maintain that breakthrough.

The reason why it's not one day is because the seminar isn't a quick fix. Tony talks about living an outstanding quality of life which only comes from constant training. The best athletes in the world don't work out once a week and become amazing in their field. They practise with motivated intent, religiously. And that's what UPW is designed to build and has been proven to build. It's a platform to create rituals in your every day life to break patterns, and live an amazing life.

There's a reason why he brings all the cheese. There's a reason why he name drops. There's a reason why he claps the way he does. There's a reason why it's 3-4 days. And there's a reason why he makes you dance, hug and high five strangers.
Some of it's related to sales and some of it's related to pre-positioning people to opening up to what he teaches. But all of it is there for a purpose.

UPW has been taken by more people than any other life coaching program in history which means that it's been refined more than any other program. Am I saying this means that you have to accept every thing the program says or does? No. Am I saying that you shouldn't let the negative elements you don't agree with dictate your entire experience of it. Yes - 100%.

The reason why I'm taking the time to write this is not because I'm keyboard warrior trying to fill his day in. It's because you're an extremely accomplished and successful person, and we NEED people like you to dream bigger than your ever thought possible. We need you to saddle up and lead change in the world.
You may feel like at this moment of your life you don't need the experience.. Well you'll never bloody know if you don't actually do it. And the whole idea of UPW is that no matter what stage you are at in your life, there's always more to unlock. If you've accomplished enough or you feel every aspect of your life is fantastic (relationships, business, love, contribution to the world..), then I'd say you need to go through the experience more than anyone.

So I challenge you and ANYONE who reads this.
I challenge you to go to UPW or DWD with a completely open mind and heart.
I challenge you to commit to push through the cheese, any other doubts (i.e. your limiting beliefs) and get as much as you can out of the experience. Laugh, cry, hug and high five strangers while you tell them your darkest fears and your most aspirational dreams.
Then I challenge you to commit to two months of daily rituals to implement the frameworks.

If at the end of those two months you don't feel like it's helped unleash a greater power inside you. Find me and I'll refund you the cost of your ticket.

My husband, and father of 3, attended a UPW event this year. It's the worst thing that could have ever happened to our family. The hype, the high-fiving, the hypnotic music, strobe lighting, the pumped up hightened emotions, the excitement, etc. It changed him, at a cost.

Obviously, to go there in the first place my husband was searching for something, some meaning and a way to feel good about himself. Most of us need a bit of help at different stages in our lives to deal with the inevitable: losing loved ones, issues of aging, relationship problems, health and diet, weight issues, sickness, feeling lonely, depression, and more.

Instead of helping my husband by giving him the tools to deal with life events, this has given him an additional distraction to remove him and distance him further from his life, his beautiful children and our family as a whole. His new "healthy eating and nutrition" program, that he adopted from UPW, means that he no longer eats with any of us as a family (which was one of the few remaining times we actually got him to ourselves because he works so much).

He is now obsessed by his diet, his own individual goals and everything UPW. He is connected with people he met at UPW, as is encouraged at the event, and they all support each other. They even have their own language, motivational phrases that they learned at the event. People that are not "in the club" just don't understand and are naysayers.

I don't say much to my husband about this because this is his journey, his choice and his way of finding a path that suits him best. I respect that. We all deal with life issues differently.....and I'm very much in favour of personal development. But in this case, it has contributed to the break-up of our family and 3 children being confused as to where the Dad they once knew went.

I agree with you with regards to a few of your points, but otherwise, strongly stand in opposition of what you have written here.

Yes, Tony Robbins does go a little off point at times, and id you are the type that has to have everything organized and compartmentalized, I can see how this could get unnerving. However, his energy and enthusiasm is powerful at keeping his audience's attention despite his meandering tendencies. I, too, detest having strangers touch me as well as touching strangers, let alone people I am friends with, so the excessive massaging was extremely unnecessary and uncomfortable (and not in a positive, self-development way). I also agree that he should allow for more time for conversing with each other - I kept feeling rushed to get the exercises done when we had to work with our partners.

Aside from all that, I am surprised that someone of your personal history of success and experience would make the decision to quit something so early on as to walk out of a 4 day workshop after just 7 hours! $2,000 or $20 dollars, money aside, if you commit to learning from an experience, how can you give up after not even finishing out the first day in its entirety? You think you spent your time better by the description you gave of your day, the day following your first day at Tony's event? What you described you did could have been done any day of your life. You made the decision and paid for it, to attend his workshop for 4 days (3.5) and you couldn't last more than 7 hours. You mentioned Tony saying "Play fill out with me". That doesn't mean play for 7 hours then leave. If you think that you are too wise and too successful to gain some sort of insight from someone who is lightyears further in life and far more experienced and successful than you are and probably ever will be, then you have much deeper issues than you may be ready to admit, my friend.

I don't know you, nor do I have any sort of personal interest with regards to Tony Robbins other than I did gain a lot from the one event I attended (same one as you did - for 7 hours anyways), but I have been told I have incredible intuition and just by what I gathered from the way you wrote this article, you sound like you have a huge ego problem - and I don't mean the way you laid out your accomplishments in the beginning of your blog. I mean what you say does not match up or sound consistent throughout this write-up. You say "Do you think I'm dumb enough to bash one of my highest profile customer's? Hell no, I wrote this article with love". Then you go about to say how many people take away a lot from his event, and that if you are lacking love or the feeling of being enough, this event is for you. Then, "for a few days you will feel loved. For a few days you will feel like you are enough". Your bitter sarcasm is just oozing through your words in those statements. "Do you think I'm dumb enough to bash one of my highest profile customer's?" YES. YES, I think you are dumb enough to do that. And what's more is that I think you are dumb enough to at the very least, exaggerate the idea that Tony Robbins is even a customer of a business you claim to own.

Do I think you should have left his seminar after just 7 hours? No. Do I think you have a strong point for why you left his seminar after just 7 hours? No. Do I think you feel embarrassed and disappointed for walking out? Yes, and not just because you clearly admit that (and subsequently attempt to downplay those statements), but because you felt the need to almost therapeutically write this blog in perhaps an attempt to self-soothe and prove to somebody (yourself?) that you aren't a complete egocentric, stubborn-headed, insecure, out-of-touch individual who couldn't see past his own limitations to allow some much needed personal development and learning from a renowned expert.

Your friend who mn you quoted on the subject of quitting, sounds like a complete buffoon.

I hope for your sake one day you might grow up and begin to realize that nothing you havd accomplished in this life will ever make you exempt from learning more.

I have the opinion that when it comes to situations like this, your experience indicates that you have become a graduate of the programs you have used to get where you are. The analogy I like to use is military service. When you you first start in your journey in the service you go to boot camp. This is where you learn the basic fundamentals of being in the your particular branch of the military. It's tough. Depending on what branch it can get downright nasty. I was in the Marines. Boot camp was Paris Island South Carolina in the middle of a swamp in June-August 1979. The training at that time included a few psychological challenges that eventually helped creat a completely new personality. I say all of this to say the following. Boot camp is not and should not be forever. You eventually graduate out into the real world. Once there, you're supposed to show how well you can build and grow on the fundamentals that you learned. Can you imagine somebody from my graduating class back in 1979 still down there learning to take a rifle apart and put it back together again? Of course not! The military wouldn't even tolerate such a thing. Unfortunately, outside of that highly structured environment there is often nobody to tell you have learned enough except ourselves and maybe a few close friends or relatives. This I suspect happened to you. You finally realized that this train had taken you as far as it could take you. And you decided to share this experience. It's a very open honest expression of maturity. So in fairness to those who attend TR seminars, these folks are at all different levels of that same process. Hell, some just got off the bus and are in line for their first military haircut! So the only thing I can say that would help your article would be to re-word the title, and re-word it in a way that shows a lot more gratitude. For example. "How I knew I Had Graduated Ftom TR University" or "How TR Helped Me To Grow Into The Man I Am" or something that actually demonstrates the memes you use. The current title is absolutely negative and unfair. It looks like you're already well into giving back to other people and realizing many goals and dreams. So I really don't understand why you chose to take that tilt in your opening title. Curious indeed. Well thank you for taking the time to read this. Nuff Said.

I used to listen to Tony Robins periodically. One thing that makes me extremely uncomfortable now is that he seems to have stained his voice to the point of damaging it. As a voice teacher, I am familiar with the problem of vocal strain, and seeing him do that is too painful for me to watch.
Other than that, I do not feel the need of a motivational speaker anyway, though I did about 28 years ago. His voice has changed!

Wow, sorry to hear that you and some others didn't understand that the UPW events are a quicky pick me up, with some amazing info put out in a different way, and a high energy escape and yes of course a sale pitch.. I offer other things and programs at my events too. No it's not for everyone just those who are looking for .. something to change. You ought to have done the firewalk it was freeing. Although I'm sure some will have a great explanation of how and why people can walk on hot coals ect.. but everything is perception and you of course are entitled to your. I hope you fine what your searching for.

Thank you for this article. TR is coming to Vancouver and I had the choice between buying ticket to go see him or purchasing the Ultimate Edge home coaching 26 CD set. I bought Ultimate Edge b/c I figured I would get more out of it and I can go back and use it again and again. A one day seminar - although uplifting - may not be as beneficial. Thanks for confirming my decision.

I went to Date With Destiny (yeah, I spent 5 grand) and I felt like in 5 days I got maybe 3 hours of actual information. Every day started about 2 hours after the time on the schedule, had ridiculous amounts of "dance time", and even though in general I like hugs - for God's sake come on already .

I was also a little disenchanted with all the hate spewed on traditional education. The eyerolls and disdain at the mere mention of "doctors" of psychology hurt a little since I worked so hard to get my doctorate degree. He said over and over how many suicides he has prevented and then I saw his suicide preventions in person. Yeah, these people in the seminar were not so much suicidal as borderline personality and were eating up the attention when they had it and I guarantee then falling off the deep-end when the attention was on someone else. As a person who works with suicidal patients on a regular basis, not only are his claims to suicide prevention absurd, I believe they may even be dangerous.

I have loved his work from the past, but now even the occasional sight of him popping up randomly on social media triggers my gag reflex.

I love the way this has captured my email address. The absolute best marketing i have seen.
The bottom line is this, you didnt walk out, your ego walked out.
All assesment is ego driven and based on your beliefs and stories about yourself.
Which are not yours, they are a product of your perception of the enviroment you were brought up in.
In other words if i had been brought up in your enviroment with your perception, i would be you and not me.
I run a series of programs designed to allow people to shine a light on their ego.
The hardest part is keeping people egos in the room long enough for me to out it to them.
If they dont feel an erge to walk out at some point im not doing my job.
Eckhart Tolle said it best, its like asking the chief of police to find the arsonist when the arsonist is the chief of police.
Get real get happy transforming the way you do your relating. Russell xx

Yes, I know what you mean and why you wrote this article. And I have to say that the Tony Robbins seminars nowadays are made for "Joe Public". Kept "simple" intentionally, etc., etc. You see, I was only 20 years old when I read Tony Robbins Book "Unleash the Giant Within". I'm German, so even back then I read the German translation. THAT was what I needed to know and I set to make the plan for my life before anybody else could. Thanks, Tony!!!!! 40 years later I have achieved everything that I had written into my plan, I have a great and fulfilled life, because of Tony Robbins and because I followed through with his suggestions. I even studied NLP. But I could NEVER attend one of those seminars he is holding for the "Joes Public", I would also need a more personal approach if I wanted to go into any special direction. Sometimes I watch Tony's videos, maybe to "freshen up" on some stuff that slipped my mind, but hey! Life is great and I really do so wish that all the Joe Publics have the intelligence to DO and FOLLOW THROUGH what Tony teaches.

your right - I would like to say disorganised too that on day one having paid for premium seats we didn't get one and we got pissed off with all the up selling - I didn't walk out as I was gutted the money I spent and saw it through. I WENT TO LEARN AND DAY TWO WAS JUST REPETITIVE TO THE EXTREME WE LEFT as small bang in the middle they were selling other services which in my opinion was not the time - I can't understand that someone with so much status has poor organisation on events and poor customer service when things go wrong like you I'm not in fear I speak the truth from the heart and they need to step up and wake up and learn

This article was genius and an amazing way to self-promote/advertise. I honestly wish I would have thought of such a creative way to gain attention and throw a few links down at the same time. I never read these things (as I found this article on FB) and yet was drawn to it because I love Tony Robbins and have never seen or heard someone give an educated/detailed description of something negative about him. But the bottom line is that you didn't see it all the way through therefore you threw in the towel without seeing what the product was in its entirety...and for that I can poke holes all day long. If you would have completed the "journey" and saw what the product looked like when it was finished I would have been more interested in your opinion...I mean after all most people attend his events because they are masters in not following through and completing their set goals right? I should know though because it's the story of my life and why I am such an avid fan of TR. ??